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November 25, 2004

Comments

D_0ne

WoW won't make 1 million. The $15 per month fee is just plain stupidly over priced for those kind of sales and we all know it.

If WoW can break a 1/2 million active accounts after year one... They might reach a half million but I doubt they can maintain those numbers. I'll be impressed if they do, economy tanking and all.

Grinless

Not that I really want to see Vivendi make more money but...

The "15$ per month is overpriced" argument is ridiculous. Hell, 15$ is cheap compared to any other kind of entertainment medium.

Get a job or something...

D_0ne

Especially when compared to other kinds of entertainment online games for the PC are insanely over priced. For example.

I can take my entire family to a movie (that’s five of us) and dinner for less than $75. Now that might be the matinee of Sponge Bob Squarepants the movie and the local all you can eat buffet but still it’s a lot for my money.

Look at the brownie points too, three happy children, wife’s happy as the kids are happy that means I’m happy.

For $75 I can get WoW and a months worth of the game, for that I get to lock myself in a room alone and stare at a $1600 computer and use a $50 Internet connection, alone, for a month. Of course, my wife is pissed because I’ve been locked away killing monsters, my kids are not getting quality time with dad and that makes them less happy.

I’m one of those people who pay bills, all kinds of bills, so I know what a game really costs. It’s not just the $15. It’s the computer, the computer upgrades every year or every six months and the Internet connection and the time away from the real people in my life.

No, while the hardcore few can scoff at the $15 per month fee, that isn’t a main stream fee level. It’s a fee level that precludes many, many people from playing or paying I should say. As little as I can actually play these games a fee of $15 makes absolutely no sense at all.

I don’t think $15 a month to isolate yourself from your family for 20 hours a week is a good value. Is $15 a month a good value for two hours a week? It might be if progression wasn't so time intensive.

slage

sorry D One, you missed the entire point

Sachiel

15 bucks/month is nothing. That's dinner for me and my wife at a mexican resaurant with the huge 12$ margarita included. And I fail to see how you can bring bring your partitioning of quality time with your family into a 'how much is too much to pay per month to a company to generate new content and quests, keep servers alive and running and that allows me to suck up their bandwidth on a nightly basis?" argument.

Sachiel

I have 2 accounts by the way, so that's 30 dollars per month. I can't say I flinch at that. That's what the dinner comment was in refrence to, not 15, but 30.

D_0ne

It's all relative.

A matter of different perspectives.

slage

Actually it's not, it's a set in stone fact.

klngarthur

$15 really isnt that much..the price of your internet connection, the price of your computer, etc arent relavent to the cost of wow, you would have those things anyways, buying wow has no impact on those things, they are sunk costs. Wow is $50 for the first month(the game comes with a free month) and then as low as $13 for following months, if you can find a months entertainment for less than $13 i urge you to take it. As a poor college student $15 is really great for me.

in addition to what cosmik said about the copy protection being silly, its even more rediculous when you consider that the collector's edition comes with a 10 day guest pass, so in fact they are encouraging you to spread the cds around. Not to mention that you dont even need the cd to play the game. I blame that on vivendi, imho this actually has been one of the better mmo launches.

D_0ne

Set in stone fact?
You’re simply disallowing any other perspective but your own. Good luck with that whole, “If you don’t think like me you’re stupid.” attitude in life.

To you maybe the cost is a value but to me its $15 for *maybe* 6 hours of enjoyment *maybe* and due to these games being more and more time dependant, can I enjoy the game if I'm only playing six hours a month? I doubt it.

As I said, it's relative to a persons perspective. If the price were lower I might be inclined to spend years developing a character but as it is now, I don’t see $100+ a year to develop a character that will in all likelihood due to limited play time never have any value at all in the game.

The main reason people quit these games in my anecdotal observations is lack of play time.


tobias

Quote: "entire family to a movie (that’s five of us) and dinner for less than $75 - it’s a lot for my money"

You think $75 for 2 hours of entertainment is a good value. My family enjoys gaming together and it's significantly cheaper per hour. And we can go see a movie and dinner too some nights. We don't have to chose one or the other.

Quote: "computer upgrades every year or every six months"

Not required for a game like WoW. However, if you are a gamer, then this is a normal expense that would be factored into every game together not to mention every other thing you do with your computer.

Quote: "that isn’t a main stream fee level."

Yes, it is. Mainstream MMOG fee level. Besides, if you prepay for a batch of months it is cheaper still.

Quote: "I don’t think $15 a month to isolate yourself from your family for 20 hours a week is a good value."

Nobody says you have to isolate yourself away from your family for 20 hours a week. Try to moderate your pleasures.

Quote: "$15 for *maybe* 6 hours of enjoyment *maybe*"

$15 for 6 hours of enjoyment is a bargain in my book.

Quote: "can I enjoy the game if I'm only playing six hours a month?"

I could. You I am not so sure. I don't demand a lot for $15 a month. You don't really sound like someone who is interested in MMOGs and therefore not a good judge of the cost of one. That is the best part, you don't have to play either.

Quote: "I don’t see $100+ a year to develop a character that will in all likelihood due to limited play time never have any value at all in the game."

You should be playing just for the entertainment during the time spent playing, not for some perceived "value" at the end of that time. What do you want to do, ebay your characters?

D-0ne

/smacks self on the forehead

Quote: “You think $75 for 2 hours of entertainment is a good value. My family enjoys gaming together and it's significantly cheaper per hour. And we can go see a movie and dinner too some nights. We don't have to chose one or the other.”

Of course this is your perspective and relative to your family. My family doesn’t enjoy online gaming, I however do enjoy online gaming.

Quote: “this is a normal expense not to mention every other thing you do with your computer.”

I don’t know about you but I have an old AMD 200 with 100megs of ram that still surfs the net and works for word processing just fine. I’m sure there are far more advanced things to do with a computer but shockingly the mainstream uses computers to do word processing, send email and surf the net. I even have an old 486 up and running that I use to surf the web on the rare occasion the other three computers in the house are taken.


Quote: ”You don't really sound like someone who is interested in MMOGs and therefore not a good judge of the cost of one.”

Odd, considering where we are having this little debate. Please don't confuse an unwillingness to devote huge blocks of time with disinterest. Six to ten hours of my free time is a huge chunk and represents a great deal of intrest.

Quote: “You should be playing just for the entertainment during the time spent playing, not for some perceived "value" at the end of that time.”

That’s the rub. Playing isn’t. It’s work to play. If you want to enjoy a character you must work at developing the character. Since UO and M59 that has involved a lot of boring mundane unfun tasks, from whack-a-mole to pressing U 1,000 times an hour.

The general theme of work to become stronger has become, start weak and become stronger while remaining relatively weak over time.

Thus, a great many gamers end up two boxing to overcome the relative weakness of the single avatar. Is it brilliant design? I think so but, it also leads to design problems.

The carrot and stick approach to gaming design. If only you could do a little more the reward would be so much greater...

Which brings me to the point about value. Characters have a relative value to the game regardless of your desire to have fun and unless that value is high enough you are not allowed to have fun, by the very design of the game. At least in a specific sense of the design, you are allowed to do X but not Z until you obtain enough value to do Z.

The problem I face is the value required to do Z advances relative to hardcore players not relative to old men who log on six hours a month.

Again, it’s relative to a players perspective. Yes, if you want to charge $15 a month feel free but in my opinion you aren’t going to find more than 500,000 people willing to pay that for a game that requires such constant attention.

What would happen if the fees were lower and the development of the games expansions were slower?

Fun link:
http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en

jim

Have you played WoW at all? The game is all about casual, have an hour to get some useful done kind of game play. You don't have to play for hours a night, play as much as you want. There are going to be people at level 60 within the first month of release I imagine, and that's fun for them, but there's nothing keeping you from levelling more slowly, and your character doesn't suck because you're only level 10. In fact the things you can do fit just fine with the stuff you need to do and it's a blast. If it's not, the response 'so don't play the game' come to mind. 300K people have found WoW to be fun enough to at least buy so far, but there's still a lot of people who are in your camp and do dinner and a movie, read a book, go to the gym, or whatever it is they find fun that doesn't include MMORPG's. It's all relative, but the monthly MMOG fee is certainly not a significant barrier to entry in the American marketplace.

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